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Community meeting: 2011-01-25

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sigblips
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[11:00am] Avinash: Good morning / afternoon / evening everyone.
[11:00am] jrseti: hello
[11:01am] janebird joined the chat room.
[11:01am] Avinash: Anders has recorded these sessions in the past. He is not here right now. Does someone have the capability to record these?
[11:01am] jrseti: I have no idea how he did it
[11:02am] sigblips: Yes, I'm using Colloquy and it is logging the chat.
[11:02am] MichaelM: great!
[11:02am] Avinash: Thanks.
[11:02am] Avinash: sigblips: Just post the transcript when the session is over.
[11:02am] sigblips: OK
[11:02am] Avinash: How is everyone doing today?
[11:02am] MichaelM: fine
[11:02am] Avinash: What do we want to accomplish?
[11:03am] Jill joined the chat room.
[11:03am] jrseti: I have a start of a lis tof things I'll discuss
[11:03am] Avinash: 1) Website issues, 2) MPS vs. GPL 3) GSOC
[11:03am] Avinash: 4) ?
[11:03am] Avinash: * MOK
[11:03am] jrseti: 4 - Header update
[11:03am] Avinash: * MPL
[11:03am] Waldir joined the chat room.
[11:03am] jrseti: 5 - Get-It-Done meeting
[11:03am] Waldir left the chat room. (Changing host)
[11:03am] Waldir joined the chat room.
[11:03am] Waldir: hi all
[11:03am] MichaelM: Buenas dias
[11:04am] Avinash: Hi Waldir.
[11:04am] Avinash: 7) ?
[11:04am] Waldir: noches, actually
[11:04am] MichaelM: lol
[11:04am] Avinash: jrset - shall we start with your items, and then go on to the others?
[11:04am] Avinash: *jrseti
[11:04am] jrseti: The header...
[11:05am] jrseti: I am working on inserting the headers. It is going fine, hope to have it done my the end of the week
[11:05am] jrseti: That is all on that.
[11:05am] Avinash: What else is there before we put the files out - pre-alpha?
[11:06am] jrseti: Jane is doing some file deletion and rearranging of files.
[11:06am] Avinash: What is the target date for pre-alpha?
[11:06am] jrseti: No target yet - maybe early Feb?
[11:07am] MichaelM: We used to call that "January 32"
[11:07am] Avinash: Makes sense.
[11:07am] jrseti: Sometime next week
[11:07am] Avinash: Great. We just need to make sure that people at least have a chance to see some of it before the GID.
[11:07am] jrseti: 2 - The Get-It-Done event.....
[11:08am] Avinash: Let us have an update on pre-alpha next IRC.
[11:08am] jrseti: We need to invite people and get an RSVP list.
[11:08am] jrseti: Also, we need to finalize an agenda
[11:08am] Avinash: Have you and David been able to find time together to develop the agenda?
[11:09am] jrseti: No, I'll get in touch with his
[11:09am] jrseti: "him"
[11:09am] jrseti: I'll send out details to the mailing list
[11:10am] jrseti: That is all on that from me
[11:10am] Avinash: So, the target date is still Feb. 8-10.
[11:10am] jrseti: yes
[11:11am] Avinash: OK. Item 3 - Community website solution. There is a lot of confusion (in my mind) around this.
[11:11am] jrseti: mine too!
[11:11am] Avinash: Our goal was to allow the community to start contributing to the website.
[11:11am] Avinash: The two questions are - What can they contribute effectively, and what infrastructure / processes need to be built to enable this contribution.
[11:12am] MichaelM: I think item 1 totally drives item 2
[11:12am] Avinash: So, let us address 1 first.
[11:12am] MichaelM: May I?
[11:12am] Avinash: Yes, of course.
[11:13am] MichaelM: We are presently set up with Drupal, which allows us to empower any arbitrarily large set of individuals to post content, comments, images and files, and to have them indexed.  Because drupal's wiki sucks, waldir has explored, and I am following, putting up a mediawiki site.
[11:14am] MichaelM: Drupal is highly extensible, and any of 7000 other existing modules could be added, as could custom modules, if a need is identified.
[11:14am] MichaelM: In terms of information, I am not sure what else you want.
[11:15am] Avinash: These seem reasonable.
[11:16am] Avinash: There was some thought in the past that LE.tv have not been engaged enough to fix bugs on the website, the community can do them.
[11:16am] Jill: since we are not the only ones who think Drupal wiki is less than stellar - is it being worked on by them?
[11:17am] MichaelM: Jill, I am not sure.  A new release of Drupal was made, major version change, a month ago.  It might be better.  Avinash, what bugs?
[11:17am] Avinash: David - in the last meeting, and others before that - had suggested that we not use Drupal wiki.
[11:18am] sigblips: We don't want to have two wikis.  That would be too confusing.
[11:18am] Avinash: Bugs / features - there are a number of them on the website. E.g. I filed on yesterday - the feature of selecting blogs by writer is not working any more.
[11:18am] Avinash: Also, when I tried to enter a new blog, the background was totally dark. So dark that I could not see the text I was entering.
[11:18am] MichaelM: There should be only one wiki. when the mediawilki is "done," we hide the old drupal one
[11:19am] MichaelM: Avinash, okay, I did not know about those.  Sure hope I did not cause those problems.  I assume LE continues to be silent?
[11:20am] Avinash: I had a meeting set up this afternoon with LE.tv. It has been moved to tomorrow. They are due to give us a version of their view on setiQuest.org 2.0.
[11:21am] Avinash: Right now they are not looking at bugs. But once their development team starts engaging, we will look at them again.
[11:21am] Waldir: About the wiki being "done": I can assist Michael in configuring the wiki, but I'm curious about what David's mediawiki expertise is. He could probably be a better person to assist in the server-side configuration
[11:21am] Avinash: I think we are going to have trouble getting any kind of time from David (except 8-10 Feb, when he has agreed to work with us - hopefully at our office).
[11:21am] MichaelM: Will be interesting to hear.  I think their work is good.  Generally, the kinds of thing you describe are config issues.  @Waldir, david says he is a MediaWIKI expert
[11:22am] Avinash: MichaelM - yes, they are config issues. I had resolved a few of them in the past, but don't know enough about Drupal (yet) to be confident of them.
[11:22am] Waldir: well, that can mean a lot of things  from the user point of view, and non-server-side administration, I am an exper too
[11:23am] Waldir: *expert
[11:23am] MichaelM: @avinash, I see what you mean on the blog entry  I know the fix for that.
[11:23am] gliese581`: MichaelM: Error: "avinash," is not a valid command.
[11:23am] Waldir: lol
[11:23am] MichaelM: bummer for avinash
[11:24am] Avinash: Sometimes it does feel like it.
[11:24am] Avinash: Situation today is: Driupal installation is at SI. Mediawiki is being migrated to SI.
[11:24am] Avinash: Michael is setting up mailing lists.
[11:24am] MichaelM: Yep, and mailman mailing list is being tested
[11:25am] MichaelM: (SI IT set it up)
[11:25am] Waldir: MichaelM: do you know to what extend can we replicate Google groups functionality?
[11:25am] Avinash: So, the question then is how do we get the community involved in website development?
[11:26am] MichaelM: isn't the community already involved in website development?
[11:26am] Avinash: Yes, Waldir did do the mediawiki.
[11:27am] Avinash: I am OK with the current set up if people are OK with it.
[11:27am] MichaelM: good!
[11:27am] Waldir: Avinash: actually, I haven't started the actual mediawiki work I planned to do
[11:27am] Waldir: after the functiopnality is there, i plan to tweak the css and system messages to provide near-seamless integration with the main website
[11:27am] MichaelM: blog entry page fixed, along with all other content entry pages
[11:28am] Avinash: Wow! Real-time. Thanks.
[11:28am] MichaelM: I think I have a clue how to merge logins, but David will know more
[11:28am] Waldir: yeah, I feel that way too
[11:28am] Avinash: merge logins in MW and Drupal?
[11:28am] Waldir: y
[11:28am] Avinash: We are also looking at FaceBook integration.
[11:29am] Waldir: that's smart
[11:29am] MichaelM: simple
[11:29am] Avinash: I will talk to LE.tv about this.
[11:29am] davidstrauss joined the chat room.
[11:29am] Avinash: MichaelM - "simple?" Should we go ahead and do it ourselves?
[11:29am] Waldir: now that you mention networking: I created a Linkedin group for sQ
[11:30am] Avinash: Given that we are not making any changes to the way we are developing the website, shall we move on to the next topic?
[11:30am] MichaelM: Avinash the thing that pisses most people off is to go in, tweak their thing, and hand it back saying "fix this".  I can trivially implement a simple fb integration.  LE should be able to do something far more compelling.  Give them first crack, and then I will learn from it
[11:30am] MichaelM: yes, move!
[11:31am] sigblips: I've been using the search feature Michael added a couple weeks ago.  It works well and I've found many things with it.  It seems ready for general use. Probably want to add a search box widget or include http://setiquest.org/search in a pull down menu.
[11:31am] Avinash: Sigblips - if it is easy, let us do it. If not easy, let us put it in Redmine.
[11:31am] Avinash: This one sounds "not easy."
[11:32am] Avinash: Welcome David. Any questions for him on the website before we move on?
[11:32am] Avinash: Seeing none, let us go to MPL vs. GPL.
[11:33am] Avinash: Francis Potter (Hathersage Group) is developing an Android-based personal seti application for us.
[11:33am] MichaelM: cool!
[11:33am] Avinash: He is basing it on Adobe Flex, which is MPL (Mozilla Public License).
[11:34am] Avinash: MPL and GPL are apparently totally incompatible. Neither can take code released under the other.
[11:34am] sigblips: Does Adobe FLEX mean Flash? Just curious.
[11:34am] Avinash: FLEX is an entire environment, and I think it does include Flash.
[11:35am] Avinash: FLEX is open sourced under MPL.
[11:35am] sigblips: OK, thanks.
[11:35am] MichaelM: I think so.  Incompatible licenses should not matter since it's primarily data that passes, no?
[11:35am] Avinash: So, PSA has to be under MPL - no choice.
[11:35am] Avinash: MichaelM Yes. We will have two apps with two different licenses.
[11:35am] Avinash: But, I don't see any other solution.
[11:36am] MichaelM: it's fine.  Apps developers should not have to be our code-slaves
[11:36am] sigblips: It will be a problem if the Android app wants to use any SonATA GPL code.
[11:37am] Avinash: Yes, I agree. But this will prevent us in the future from integrating the two apps, should we desire to.
[11:37am] Avinash: For now, my view is also to let us carry on with the two licenses.
[11:37am] MichaelM: fortunately, the plan is for SETI to retain title/nongpl rithts, so we can license how we want
[11:38am] Avinash: Not for Francis's code. He will give us rights to some, and retain rights to the rest, releasing it under MPL for us to use.
[11:38am] MichaelM: fine
[11:39am] Avinash: OK. Let us move to the last item of the day.
[11:39am] Avinash: Has anyone participated in Google Summer of Code.
[11:40am] Jill: Danese Cooper has
[11:40am] Avinash: The 2011 program was announced yesterday. I there is interest, I can give a brief overview. I just wanted people's views on participating vs. not participating.
[11:40am] Avinash: *I => If
[11:41am] MichaelM: I think it'd cool and compelling if we have the means to support our own participation
[11:41am] Avinash: Here is how it works.
[11:41am] Avinash: We apply to Google as an organization. They select a subset of applicants - around 150 or so.
[11:42am] Avinash: Then we create a page with projects - each project = 1 student, 1 summer.
[11:42am] Avinash: Students apply for projects. And we select from these students.
[11:42am] Avinash: We have to mentor these students.
[11:42am] robackrman left the chat room. (Quit: Leaving)
[11:42am] Avinash: So, we will need a number of 3 student-month projects, and find mentors for each of these projects.
[11:43am] Jill: if we participate it means work for us.  if we don't participate we miss out on really bright young folks.
[11:43am] Avinash: Yes.
[11:43am] MichaelM: SETI has good experience mentoring younger minds, this seems ideal
[11:43am] Avinash: But the bigger problem may be that we just don't have enough people to do this work. By the way, mentors can be from the community too.
[11:43am] sigblips: Does the SETI Institute have the resources to do this?
[11:44am] MichaelM: interesting question.  Is there a sense of how much time of what kinda folk is needed?
[11:45am] Avinash: Apparently, average mentorship load per project is 5 hours a week.
[11:45am] Avinash: And, since this is software development, these mentors would preferably be software engineers.
[11:45am] sigblips: How many hours per week are SETI Institute employees allowed to spend on setiQuest.org?
[11:45am] Avinash: There is no guideline on this.
[11:46am] Avinash: Students apply to GSoC for the prestige, but also to learn - so mentoring has to be appropriate.
[11:47am] janebird: where do the students work?
[11:47am] Avinash: Students work wherever they are. And, they are around the world. So, the project has to be separable.
[11:48am] Avinash: We don't have to decide this today. We have another one month. I just wanted to bring this up so that we can all start thiniking about it.
[11:48am] Jill: there will likely be lots of bells and whistles to be added to Francis Potter's android app - might he enjoy mentoring a student to one or more of them?
[11:49am] MichaelM: Finally someone to code setigame.com!!!
[11:49am] Avinash: Just for #'s, last year they had 150 organizations, and 1000+ students.
[11:49am] Jill: Micheal +1
[11:49am] Jill: *Michael
[11:49am] Avinash: I brought it up yesterday with Francis. We did not have time yesterday, but I sent him mail today to gauge his level of interest.
[11:51am] Avinash: Shall we summarize the AI's, and call it a day?
[11:51am] Avinash: 1) jrseti to give update on pre-alpha.
[11:51am] Avinash: 2) jrseti and David to get together to set up the GID agenda.
[11:51am] Avinash: 3) Keep website where it is, and continue current efforts.
[11:52am] Avinash: 4) We are OK with MPL and GPL.
[11:52am] Avinash: 5) Everyone think about GSoC.
[11:52am] Avinash: Anything else?
[11:52am] Waldir: yes
[11:52am] Waldir: I'd like to hear what you think about the Linkedin group
[11:52am] Waldir: http://www.linkedin.com/groups?about=&gid=3760174&trk=anet_ug_grppro
[11:52am] gliese581`: Title: setiQuest | LinkedIn (at www.linkedin.com)
[11:52am] MichaelM: good thing
[11:52am] Avinash: Yes, +1
[11:53am] sigblips: I'm joining it now.
[11:53am] Avinash: Michael is already there. I will go ahead and join it too.
[11:53am] Waldir: yes, please join and invite others
[11:53am] Avinash: It will be nice if between us, we can do at least one or two updates a week.
[11:53am] Waldir: I did a search for DSP and a friend of mine came up
[11:53am] Waldir: I sent him a message asking if he'd b einterested in sQ
[11:53am] Avinash: I can tie it to seti.org (with their 5 updates a day), but that would merely be duplication.
[11:53am] Waldir: linkedin is good for that kinda thing
[11:54am] Avinash: Thanks Waldir.
[11:54am] Waldir: Avinash: yes, discussions can be generated via rss
[11:54am] Waldir: also, I have another quick announcement, sorry
[11:54am] Avinash: Yes.
[11:54am] Waldir: I finished converting the logo to SVG
[11:55am] Waldir: I will upload it to the wiki as soon as it accepts svg files
[11:55am] jrseti: awesome!
[11:55am] MichaelM: neat!
[11:55am] MichaelM: search added as dropdown on LEARN
[11:55am] Waldir: it was converted from the .ai file and manually cleaned up and can now be manipulated (e.g. to be adapted to new environments)
[11:56am] MichaelM: oh wait a minute, no it isnt
[11:56am] sigblips: I see The Search as a drop down on the Learn menu.
[11:56am] MichaelM: okay, never mind
[11:56am] Avinash: That is SETI.
[11:56am] Avinash: Not website search.
[11:57am] MichaelM: LE did something clever,  stop looking.  will do later
[11:57am] Waldir: btw you should be able to view the svg in a modern browser: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/510542/SetiQuest%20logo.svg
[11:57am] sigblips: Maybe we could combine the two searches?  (:
[11:57am] Waldir: (and see the source!)
[11:57am] Avinash: Yes, I see it.
[11:57am] Avinash: Looks good.
[11:58am] Avinash: OK folks. Until next week.
[11:58am] Waldir: Bye all
[11:58am] MichaelM: byby
[11:59am] MichaelM left the chat room. (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014])
[11:59am] Avinash: sigblips - do not forget to post the transcript.
[11:59am] sigblips: Will do.