[11:01am] Avinash: Good morning / afternoon / evening everyone, including the Duke.
[11:01am] Waldir: michaelMo: lol
[11:01am] michaelMo: heh
[11:01am] Waldir: bbl, all
[11:01am] Waldir is now known as Waldir_away.
[11:02am] Avinash: Today this meeting will have two purposes - our regular stuff, and answering GSoC queries. They will be interspersed.
[11:02am] Waldir_away left the chat room. (Changing host)
[11:02am] Waldir_away joined the chat room.
[11:02am] khrm joined the chat room.
[11:02am] Avinash: What do we want to achieve today?
[11:02am] Avinash: 1) GSoC update, project pages, etc. 2)???
[11:03am] sigblips: This is our 25th IRC meeting. http://setiquest.org/wiki/index.php/Community_meeting#IRC_chat_transcripts
[11:03am] Jill_ joined the chat room.
[11:03am] Avinash: Wow, we have been meeting for almost 6 months. Thanks to you all.
[11:04am] michaelMo: have there been any downloads of SONata
[11:04am] Avinash: 2) We can talk a little about our Social media strategy, and if there is time, then about where we want to take the website.
[11:04am] janebird joined the chat room.
[11:05am] michaelMo: my question could be #3
[11:05am] Avinash: 3) SonATA downloads 4)???
[11:05am] Avinash: Let us start with 1.
[11:05am] sigblips: 4) I added http://setiquest.org/wiki/index.php/GitHub#Tutorial Jon and/or Jane should double check the steps, add some new tips / pointers ...
[11:06am] khrm: I am getting page not found
[11:06am] Jill_: me too
[11:07am] jrseti: you have to take out the funny characters
[11:07am] Avinash: khrm - try http://setiquest.org/wiki/index.php/GitHub#Tutorial
[11:07am] Avinash: I just did, and got in.
[11:07am] michaelMo: good gracious, i need to get clean urls installed. that was awful!
[11:07am] sigblips: Isn't that what I typed? Maybe my IRC client is doing something funny?
[11:08am] Avinash: Sigblips - on my screen, only half the url was highlighted. For me, that caused the problem.
[11:08am] Avinash: Back to GSoC. We are now an accepted organization in the GSoC 2011 program.
[11:08am] michaelMo: yay
[11:08am] Avinash: Students have been interacting with us, sending us emails.
[11:09am] Avinash: We don't know yet how many students we'll get. It depends on some secret algorithm that Google has. They do tell us, however, that the # of applications is one factor.
[11:10am] saksham: secret algorithm >:o
[11:10am] jrseti: I've been fielding some of the questions and I've started upgrading the project descriptions with more details
[11:10am] Avinash: The projects are on the GSoC page in the wiki. http://setiquest.org/wiki/index.php/GSoC
[11:11am] Avinash: This leads to further details on all the projects, and as jrseti says, we have been updating the descriptions based on q's. Jill - I have added your long mail to your project description.
[11:11am] Jill_: sorry - need to go offline for a bit - cable guy is working on the network
[11:11am] Jill_ left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)
[11:11am] Avinash: The last date for students is April 9. (Right, Saksham?)
[11:12am] saksham: april 8
[11:13am] Avinash: I am going to be on IRC much of the day, should people have questions. It will be great if some of you can also keep the IRC window open so that you can address questions when I am not around.
[11:13am] Avinash: If you don't have the answer, just send me mail, and I will address them.
[11:13am] jrseti: I think this will be quite a bit of work. Right away we got interested people emailing up with questions.
[11:13am] jrseti: I'll stay on the IRC as much as I can today
[11:14am] Avinash: That is why I have started the GSoC FAQ page. If we put enough answers there, then people won't have to ask the same q again.
[11:14am] jrseti: is the FAQ page up yet?
[11:14am] Avinash: Yes.
[11:15am] jrseti: URL?
[11:15am] khrm: Yes.
[11:15am] sigblips: The GSoC wiki page has almost 800 hits. It will surpass the the main wiki page 1336 hits in a day or two.
[11:15am] Avinash: And, it is linked from the mail GSoC page. http://setiquest.org/wiki/index.php/GSoC_FAQ
[11:16am] jrseti: I really like the WiKi now
[11:17am] Avinash: Yes, I do too. Thanks to Waldir, Sigblips and Michael.
[11:17am] Avinash: Shall we move on to the next item. Let us skip social media strategy for a bit, and go to 3.
[11:17am] Avinash: jrseti - any update on new downloads?
[11:17am] khrm: I will like to point out that project 1 and two are quite interlinked.
[11:18am] Avinash: khrm I agree. But putting them together would have been too big for a GSoC project.
[11:18am] Avinash: Maybe.
[11:18am] jrseti: No updates. We have had several uploads. But no contact yet from anyone with code questions
[11:19am] Avinash: Is there any way to find out how many?
[11:19am] michaelMo: I have saksham asking me questions in another window!
[11:19am] sigblips: Six people have forked SonATA on GitHub https://github.com/setiQuest/SonATA/network/members
[11:19am] saksham: i'm having trouble with sonata actually...
[11:19am] michaelMo: HOW ARE we using the word "forked" in that statement?
[11:20am] Avinash: forked = created a copy.
[11:20am] sigblips: It's a family tree thing.
[11:20am] michaelMo: okay, not crreated an incompatible release leading to disharmony and ruiin
[11:20am] Avinash: Saksham - what problem are you seeing.
[11:21am] Avinash: MichaelMo - that is always a possibility. But we hope that people will merge their forks back into the main trunk.
[11:21am] Avinash: Or, at least request us to merge them.
[11:21am] michaelMo: right. hence the contributor agreement
[11:22am] Avinash: Yes, and I forget - did we ever put it on the website?
[11:22am] khrm: I will also like to point that there is an issue 272 about coding guidelines.
[11:23am] sigblips: http://issues.setiquest.org/issues/272
[11:24am] michaelMo: i bet its not there yet, but that is okay, "just in time" is the new "planning"
[11:24am] Avinash: khrm - We have talked about guidelines, but we don't have any in place yet. It will be great if we settle on some soon.
[11:25am] khrm: Also what about a mailing list or group?
[11:25am] maheshwar joined the chat room.
[11:25am] Avinash: Welcome Maheshwar.
[11:25am] Avinash: khrm - we do all our discussions on the forums. setiquest.org/forums
[11:26am] khrm: ok
[11:26am] Avinash: ** etiquest.org/forum - no "s" in the back.
[11:26am] Avinash: ** setiquest.org/forum
[11:26am] maheshwar: Avinash : hi
[11:27am] Avinash: Are we done with item 3? Shall we go on to 4?
[11:27am] Avinash: sigblips?
[11:28am] sigblips: The http://setiquest.org/wiki/index.php/GitHub#Tutorial should be checked and any new tips / queries / ... added.
[11:28am] Avinash: Now the URL came through cleanly.
[11:29am] jrseti: I will take a look and review. I'll ask our intern Stephanie to review this also.
[11:29am] Avinash: By the way, is there a way for people to know what is on the wiki - other than searching, and finding something and not finding other. I am thinking of something like a sitemap.
[11:30am] sigblips: The "git pull upstream master" sync step took me a while to figure out.
[11:30am] Avinash: There is a list of all pages, but that is just an alphabetical list, not showing what is connected to what.
[11:31am] jrseti: Sigblips: This is good, I'll be reviewing it. I just now sent an email to Stephanie asking for her review.
[11:31am] maheshwar left the chat room. (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[11:31am] sigblips: I'm sure there are all sorts of graphical MediWiki link relationship programs out on the net. Might be fun for someone to play around with.
[11:32am] Avinash: We should check with Waldir_away, when he is no longer away.
[11:32am] michaelMo: yah
[11:32am] Avinash: Let us get to the social media strategy.
[11:33am] Avinash: This project is going after 3 sets of audiences (at least) - open source software developers - for SonATA, app developers, and citizen scientists.
[11:34am] Avinash: The GSoC initiative is targeted at the first set. Explorer addresses the third set.
[11:34am] Avinash: In both these, plus in the second set, we need to get the word out to more people.
[11:35am] Avinash: Having our article on CBS News (and having something to back up the article) helped a lot. In 10 days, we have 2000+ registrations.
[11:36am] Avinash: What else can we do to get out the word. I am doing a SETI Institute colloquium on the project tomorrow. Those local can come. For others - it will be on youtube soon.
[11:36am] michaelMo: targeted fb ad
[11:37am] Avinash: Then jrseti and I have hacker dojo talk tomorrow, followed by WEb 2.0.
[11:37am] michaelMo: fb "invite a friend"
[11:37am] Avinash: MichaelMo - would this fb ad be a paid ad?
[11:37am] michaelMo: yep
[11:38am] michaelMo: "it pays to advertise" should really read "you pays to advertise"
[11:38am] sigblips: We need a plan to engage those 2000+ registrations. The forum has 3225 registered members but very few have even posted a message.
[11:38am] Avinash: Do we know how much these things cost? Maybe I should go request our Open Source friends at FB to help. Both Dave Recordon and Scott McVicar had come to seticon.
[11:38am] Avinash: sigblips - this is right.
[11:39am] sigblips: Attracting eyeballs is great but if they don't stick around ...
[11:39am] Avinash: Here is how I see it: people find out about us -> Come to website -> Register -> Post messages -> contribute
[11:39am] michaelMo: it's fluid. I posted an ad for the catering company i ran to all women in the bay area who are engaged and met other demographics for about $10 per day.
[11:40am] michaelMo: why should they have to post messages to learn about us?
[11:40am] Avinash: That is not bad.
[11:40am] Avinash: Right now here is what we are doing:
[11:40am] sigblips: Posting messages is just a metric of engagement.
[11:41am] michaelMo: yeah, but only one
[11:41am] Avinash: - Twitter (just started tweeting again), Blog (goal - once in 2 weeks or more frequent), - LinkedIN group (has only us so far) - FB (have a group, but we are not promoting there) - Wikipedia
[11:42am] Avinash: I added us to a crowdsourcing page on wikipedia.
[11:42am] Avinash: But we also need to update our wikipedia page. A lot has changed since Anders first wrote it.
[11:42am] Avinash: I will rewrite it. I hope it is not in bad form for project organizers to modify their own WP pages.
[11:43am] sigblips: It is. Those Wikipedia people are funny that way.
[11:43am] Avinash: FB ads sound like a good thing.
[11:43am] Avinash: So, how do we do WP?
[11:43am] michaelMo: write our own wiki page and hope somebody copies it?
[11:44am] michaelMo: do it ourselves and own up to it?
[11:44am] Avinash: There are plenty of us here. The definition I am hearing disqualifies only me and possibly jrseti.
[11:45am] michaelMo: maybe me
[11:45am] Avinash: I can help you with all the information you need for the content.
[11:46am] Avinash: Back to FB.
[11:47am] Avinash: Is now the right time to start advertising there? And, should we do a general ad or an explorer ad. The problem with explorer is that the queue for beta is huge.
[11:47am] Avinash: Of the almost 2300 people, only 300 have been upgraded to explorer status.
[11:48am] michaelMo: don't advertise what you cannot deliver.
[11:48am] Avinash: Agreed.
[11:49am] michaelMo: for non-explorer ad, plan to have a landing page to direct them to your call for action.
[11:49am] michaelMo: what action do you want them to take?
[11:49am] sigblips: Have you created a setiQuest Facebook page yet?
[11:50am] Avinash: The ultimate goal is to be part of the community, and contribute in one of the 3 ways - extend SonATA, write apps, or use apps.
[11:50am] Avinash: But, people can also help by telling their friends to be involved.
[11:51am] Avinash: Sigblips - we do have a FB page, but we have done nothing with it. There are probably 5 fans.
[11:52am] michaelMo: okay, so we are trying to attract, as you said, developer community. That SHOULD allow a very finely sliced fb ad. But right now we have nothing for the apps developers or apps users
[11:52am] michaelMo: or if we do, it is a secret
[11:53am] Avinash: I have been directing app developers to go look at github - for Francis's code. And, if anyone asks, I upgrade their status in beta.
[11:54am] Avinash: OK. An AI for me could be to create a path for App developers to learn more and get enough information to evaluate whether or not they want to do an app. Makes sense.
[11:54am] sigblips: I've been analyzing setiQuest data for almost a year now. http://baudline.blogspot.com/search/label/SETI A developer just needs to have the skills to know how and that is the difficult part.
[11:54am] Avinash: For app users, we have to let beta run its course.
[11:55am] michaelMo: exactly. My app (setigame.com) sits waiting for data. Oh and coding, but at least I have the domain name. A toolbox for "what we have" and a forum for "what we need" might be just the thing
[11:55am] Avinash left the chat room. (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[11:55am] michaelMo: was I too harsh?
[11:55am] Avinash joined the chat room.
[11:55am] sigblips: No, I think it was me.
[11:56am] Avinash: Sorry, I got knocked out of the chat.
[11:56am] michaelMo: repeating last
[11:56am] michaelMo: exactly. My app (setigame.com) sits waiting for data. Oh and coding, but at least I have the domain name. A toolbox for "what we have" and a forum for "what we need" might be just the thing
[11:57am] Avinash: We have attempted to do it on the ideas page. But it is obvious we have not succeeded. Take 2 now.
[11:58am] Avinash: Before we run out of time, let me attempt to summarize:
[11:58am] Avinash: 1) Work with the community on WP page update.
[11:59am] Avinash: 2) FB - think of advertising when there is a place for people to go to. OS people have a place. Others dont.
[11:59am] Avinash: 3) Embellish the ideas page.
[11:59am] Avinash: 4) Ask Waldir if there is a sitemap type functionality.
[11:59am] Avinash: Did I miss or misinterpret anything?
[12:00pm] michaelMo: how about an "app developers toolbox" page.
[12:00pm] sigblips: Need to build the toolbox first.
[12:00pm] Avinash: Good idea. We can start with putting it in the wiki, and then move it to the webpage at the next release.
[12:01pm] Avinash: There is a tab on home page for app developers. I should add more content to it.
[12:01pm] sigblips: Also moving stuff from the wiki to the main site is not the way a community wiki works. That sort of dismisses the wiki editors.
[12:01pm] Avinash: So, 5) Enhance app developer tab content.
[12:02pm] michaelMo: oh that is a good point
[12:02pm] Avinash: You are right. Here is what I was thinking. It takes us a long time to get the web team to do stuff.
[12:03pm] sigblips: If you want a community then you need to engage them, interact with them, encourage them, ...
[12:03pm] Avinash: So, if there is content between releases, we either not put it there, or put it on a wiki page with the hope of moving to the main site later.
[12:03pm] michaelMo: sorry that is wrong
[12:04pm] michaelMo: we have a content management system. you can create a page, name it and embed links to it
[12:04pm] michaelMo: you do not need the "web team"
[12:04pm] Avinash: Would Drupal qualify as CMS?
[12:04pm] michaelMo: why yes, one of the top three cms in the human universe
[12:05pm] sigblips: No. Drupal doesn't have a history like MediaWiki does.
[12:05pm] Avinash: Lack of history may be OK for the main website, which is not managed by the community.
[12:06pm] Avinash: I can create pages in Drupal, but linking them to menus is not that easy - especially because our current implementation has customized the menus.
[12:06pm] michaelMo: interesting perspective. I'll respectfully disagree with sigblips. history and revision tracking (which are options in drupal) do not define whether a tool is a Content management system
[12:06pm] sigblips: The lack of history and rollback made the old Drupal wiki very dangerous. I'm surprised it wasn't totally trashed.
[12:06pm] michaelMo: yeah, we may need to kill the menu thing they did and do something normal
[12:06pm] michaelMo: but you can still have a link to "the develpper page" inside another page
[12:07pm] Avinash: This brings us to the next item in our discussion, which we don't have time for today. Future of the website.
[12:07pm] michaelMo: oops
[12:07pm] Avinash: I agree that we can put links from pages to other pages. Maybe that is what we do for now.
[12:08pm] michaelMo: I can also modify the menu structure they hardcoded in
[12:09pm] sigblips: Is the SETI Institute IT department doing regular backups of the setiQuest.org server machine?
[12:09pm] Avinash: So, the summary if the last few minutes of discussion is - keep the wiki as a community thing. Don't try to put content that actually belongs to the website in the wiki.
[12:10pm] sigblips: I think the idea with the wiki is that everything belongs in the wiki.
[12:10pm] Avinash: Sigblips - these machines are in the data-center and part of the regular backup process. I had asked them when the issue came up earlier. I will verify again - especially after all the changes that took place when we went to the new site.
[12:11pm] Avinash: Shall we defer the website discussion to next week?
[12:11pm] michaelMo: sure
[12:11pm] sigblips: OK
[12:11pm] Avinash: Oh - I just remembered - next Tuesday is Web 2.0, and I won't be on IRC.
[12:11pm] Avinash: Let us do website stuff the following week.
[12:12pm] Avinash: Shall we bring this meeting to a close?
[12:12pm] Avinash: Good discussion today.
[12:13pm] michaelMo: fun!
[12:13pm] jrseti: OK.
[12:13pm] Avinash: I will stick around for GSoC questions. But sigblips - you can do the transcript up to here.
[12:13pm] sigblips: Yes, it was a good meeting. I will post the transcript to the forum.