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Community Meeting 2012-02-14

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sigblips
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[11:01am] jrseti_: Hello att, it is 11am California time, the setiQuest IRC chat time
[11:01am] jrseti_: "all", not "att"
[11:01am] jrseti_: I forgot to pre-post an agenda! Rats!
[11:01am] jrseti_: Sigblips: I assume you are the only one on the chat today?
[11:01am] sigblips: Next week ...
[11:02am] Jill_ joined the chat room.
[11:02am] sigblips: Hello Jill.
[11:02am] jrseti_: Hello Jill - just you, me and Sigblips
[11:03am] jrseti_: What shall we discuss?
[11:03am] Jill_: GSoC project
[11:04am] jrseti_: Yes, on Feb 27th the signup starts - so we should have an idea by then
[11:04am] leash joined the chat room.
[11:04am] sigblips: New idea from forum: setiQuest community ATA target of the month plan.
[11:04am] jrseti_: Hello Leash
[11:04am] leash: Hello. Sorry i missed the last meeting.
[11:04am] jrseti_: No problem.
[11:05am] jrseti_: We were starting to discuss Google Summer of Code
[11:05am] jrseti_: GSoC for short
[11:05am] jrseti_: We need to come up with a good project for GSoC
[11:06am] janebird joined the chat room.
[11:06am] sigblips: Do we want to do GSoC again? There are some pluses and a whole lot of minuses.
[11:07am] Jill_: we've discussed big database mining project
[11:08am] Jill_: if we do this, we do need to get a useful result for us --- i think we have to be selfish given the amount of time we will spend
[11:08am] Jill_: i've been looking at the wiki to see what we've said we need help with - these all seem like big projects
[11:09am] jrseti_: Jill,Jill: I agree - projects too big. We need to revamp the list.
[11:09am] jrseti_: Gagan was on the chat last week - he wants a project to do now. I've proposed to him a very simple project to take the schedule XML file and create a nice Gannt chart
[11:10am] sigblips: I've written about this in the forum and I need to find those old posts. I did a post-analysis of the effect GSoC had on setiQuest. All was not positive.
[11:10am] jrseti_: Then we can take that program and expand it to create other nice charts in real-time as we see fit.
[11:11am] jrseti_: Sigblips: yes, please find them.
[11:12am] jrseti_: Too bad Gerry is not on the chat. He is having trouble thinking of an appropriate project
[11:12am] jrseti_: I wonder if he will want to mentor this year?
[11:13am] Jill_: Gerry will be interested if the project is to develop an analysis tool he needs
[11:13am] jrseti_: Jill: Probably, and that would be a good one
[11:14am] Jill_: anything that could utilize the siliconwolfe?
[11:14am] jrseti_: So, I'll revamp the projects list on the Wiki, and Sigblips can further discussions aout it we should actually do one.
[11:15am] jrseti_: Jill: I need to email them. They are working on it, but have not heard from them in several weeks. Last I heard they got the SonATA Voyager demo working and were looking at the code to see if they can spped it up.
[11:16am] Jill_: i'd love to try turning the error messages from SonATA into english that a non-programmer can read
[11:16am] jrseti_: ALL: Siliconwolf is a company that is taking our SonATA code and seeing if they can speed it up with their GPUs or FPGAs
[11:16am] gerryharp joined the chat room.
[11:16am] Jill_: we were talking about you Gerry
[11:16am] gerryharp: so i heard
[11:16am] jrseti_: Jill: That would be a large task that would involve a lot of work from us.
[11:17am] Jill_: do you want to be GSoC mentor?
[11:17am] gerryharp: me? yes, if I can think of the rigth project that promotes our science
[11:17am] sigblips: http://setiquest.org/forum/topic/community-meeting-2011-10-25#comment-2740
[11:18am] gerryharp: any ideas coem up so far?
[11:18am] sigblips: There really hasn't been any discussion of the effect GSoC had on the setiQuest project. This should be discussed.
[11:19am] jrseti_: Gerry: Furthereing the algorithms project, is that what you'd like to work on?
[11:19am] gerryharp: We should look beyond what we currently consider setiquest to be
[11:19am] gerryharp: the algorithm project was a success, we have used it for the analysis we wanted to do
[11:19am] gerryharp: I'm interested in newer ideas
[11:20am] gerryharp: for example, I had the crazy thought of uploading all the signal databases SETI has and let people look at those data
[11:20am] jrseti_: Gerry: +++ on that one
[11:21am] gerryharp: Is open data == open source? It might be, but there has to be a substantial coding side for GSoC
[11:21am] Jill_: thanks sigblips, now i remember. you were concerned that we few staff spent our time mentoring other communities and therefore could not spend time on the setiQuest community
[11:22am] gerryharp: well, mentorigin is what I do, I did interact with a small number of individuals in teh community last year. To me, that is mentoring. But I'm not as intetrested in running a large group
[11:22am] sigblips: GSoC focused the entire project's energy for 5+ months on two students who have since disappeared. If you want setiQuest to develop an open source element then GSoC is not how to do it.
[11:22am] jrseti_: Sigblips - Jill: That is a valid point. And now with SETILive we are going to take even more time and resources away.
[11:22am] gerryharp: already has
[11:24am] gerryharp: sigblips' point is well taken. If our main goal was to build up a piece of software for everyday use, like gimp, then GSoC is a failure from that perspective
[11:24am] Jill_: sorry Charlie ... those resources have been paid for. we need to bring in our salaries, and SETI Live is doing that.
[11:24am] jrseti_: As we have discussed before - setiQuest has lost direction, which way do we turn to attract people to help us with what we want help on? What do we want help on?
[11:24am] jrseti_: Jill: No arguing with that!
[11:25am] gerryharp: My perspecitve is different. If my science gets done, then it is a success. I am also interested in providing soem support for serious citizen scientists
[11:25am] Jill_: i think from setiQuest community point of view 'what we want help on' is the wrong question. they want to help us in ways that they find rewarding, doing things they enjoy doing.
[11:26am] sigblips: GSoC is also not designed to sponsor new projects. GSoC's main purpose is for students to spend the summer coding on established open source projects. New projects don't have any infrastructure and I think that was part of the problem.
[11:26am] gerryharp: Providing soem data may be helpful, if the citizens are self-motivated. Again, the databases.
[11:27am] gerryharp: Sigblips: So you're suggesting that we divorce GSoC from setiquest? That may be appropriate.
[11:27am] jrseti_: I think the desire is a union of the two: 'what we want help on' needs to meld with 'help us in ways that they find rewarding, doing things they enjoy doing'
[11:28am] Jill_: hasn't been a lot of union
[11:28am] gerryharp: well, lets turn the question around, what do people want? Independently of what SETI Institute wants?
[11:28am] jrseti_: no
[11:29am] sigblips: I believe that GSoC is a very bad way to develop a community around setiQuest. GSoC alienated everyone except the two selected students. Do we want a setiQuest community?
[11:29am] Jill_: what about jazzing up World of SETI - it's what jrseti has been pushing all along. give folks a window into what's happening right now at the telescope.
[11:30am] Jill_: Rob was working on nice screen interface before he went off
[11:31am] jrseti_: Do we need GSoC for that? Probably not. Probably best to get a group of volunteers, that would be a good 'community' project that could be broken up into small, manageable segments
[11:32am] Jill_: in fact Karen is working with General Things to relaunch the SETI Stars site. that will continue to be an outlet for anything we produce that informs individuals about what we are doing
[11:33am] gerryharp: jrseti: Can you make due with an undergraduate intern through one of Cynthia's programs?
[11:33am] jrseti_: You mean for the World of SETI related projects?
[11:34am] gerryharp: yeah
[11:34am] jrseti_: Cynthia said the REU projects need to be more science related
[11:34am] Jill_: Gerry and Jrseti - did you two benefit from your association with Google sponsors?
[11:34am] gerryharp: For REU, yes. We should talk to her. Or we could go after interns on our own.
[11:35am] jrseti_: Jill: What do you mean "Google sponsors"?
[11:35am] gerryharp: back to setiquset, up till now we've been data-driven, would that be right?
[11:36am] Jill_: the folks who work in the Googleplex - did you meet interesting/informative/useful folks as part of the GSoC work you did?
[11:36am] Turingi joined the chat room.
[11:36am] Turingi left the chat room. (Changing host)
[11:36am] Turingi joined the chat room.
[11:36am] gerryharp: jill; Yes, I have benefited from GSoC. .WoS may be a good problem for a GSoC student
[11:37am] gerryharp: jill: I met a lot of people doing open source. This was valuable.
[11:37am] jrseti_: Jill: Not really. It was interesting learning about the open source world and discussing with those types of people.
[11:37am] Jill_: what platform was WoS built on? what platform should it have used? is it an open source platform?
[11:37am] jrseti_: Linux, Riby-on-Rails
[11:38am] jrseti_: Ruby-on-Rails
[11:38am] gerryharp: Back to setiquest, until now we have been data driven. We can't see a way forward to collecting more of the old-style data at this moment (could change). Are other data products (e.g. databases) of interst? They sure are to me...
[11:38am] sigblips: The WoS code is all on GitHub, it is open source.
[11:38am] Jill_: is that what they used, or what they should have used?
[11:38am] jrseti_: Jill: I think what they used was the best fit. And it is all open source.
[11:40am] Jill_: so a project to make WoS better would in fact be be using established OS tools, even if it isn't coding to improve those tools as sigblips suggested is the intention
[11:40am] gerryharp: OK, here is another idea. I'm working on analysis routines to generate loads of time dependent / freq dependent imagery using our telescope. Is this an interesting data source?
[11:40am] jrseti_: Gerry: We have been discussing publishing all the compamp files and archive-comamp files into the cloud as they are produced. But I think I am the only one at SETI who is in favor of that at the moment.
[11:40am] jrseti_: Gerry: Could that be used to search for signals?
[11:41am] gerryharp: jrseti: OK, that is also a good idea. Are we just talking to ourselves?
[11:42am] jrseti_: Gerry: What do you mean "Are we just talking to ourselves?"
[11:42am] Jill_: the problem is not publishing the data, it is committing to doing anything about what people do with the data.
[11:42am] gerryharp: why do we need to commit to what other people do with the data? We can help, sure. Aren't they the ones that want to play?
[11:43am] Jill_: but that's exactly what has made the setiQuest community unhappy. they come up with results/ideas/questions and we do not respond to them - at least not quickly
[11:44am] sigblips: Any data source that has signals is an interesting data source. So Gerry, yes I think your new T/F dependent imagery would be interesting if it has SETI signal potential.
[11:45am] gerryharp: I'm not trying to be harsh, btw. Just asking questions.
[11:45am] jrseti_: Mee too
[11:47am] jrseti_: back to setiQuest/GSoC. We have several weeks to decide if/what we want to do
[11:47am] Jill_: reread the forum post that sigblips just sent us - he's been one of our most prolific community members and he's unhappy that we don't act on what he tells us. Dave Robinson as well.
[11:48am] sigblips: Jill: That was one of my main complaints about GSoC. It focused all this energy on two students instead of focusing on the existing community. If you want a community to thrive then a lot of effort needs to be spent on nurturing it.
[11:48am] gerryharp: Jill points out a serious problem, which I have been thinking about and still need to think more about. The hardest part of data analysis is not the analysis per se, but drawing conclusions. This is what we need the most help with.
[11:49am] gerryharp: sigblips: I hear that the community is feeling neglected.
[11:50am] gerryharp: sigblips: This is a problem we need to address, one way or the other.
[11:50am] sigblips: Yup, that is what the recent complaining in the forum is about.
[11:50am] jrseti_: We could use a full time person whose job it is to interact with the community on behalf of us.
[11:50am] gerryharp: I don't see how that helps SETI.
[11:50am] Jill_: ah.... but these students returned to us exactly what we wanted. the disconnect mentioned above: what we need vs. what the community wants to contribute. and sigblips was right in the post - we are more academic
[11:50am] gerryharp: I'm sorry, but I"m trying to make the point that this game has to be win-win.
[11:52am] Jill_: we had Avinash, courtesy of TED. given current financial state we aren't likely to be able to replace him.
[11:52am] gerryharp: We need to identify areas or projects that are fun for people to particidpate in, and add value to SETI. Missing either of these goals is not acceptable.
[11:53am] jrseti_: yes
[11:53am] gerryharp: OPen source software can be arranged in a way to allow differernt people to contribute on different time scales. Our science is highly competitive (short time scale) and our interests often change (3 months cycle). This is a challenge.
[11:54am] sigblips: Actually I think the SETI Institute's academic nature is a good thing. Just spread it around a bit more than was done with GSoC. Like Gerry's IRC colloquium chat last year, that was fantastic.
[11:54am] gerryharp: Seti LIVE! is one example of fun + useful.
[11:55am] Jill_: we're almost at the end. jrseti - can you post a summary of the ideas for GSoC projects we discussed on the forum and maybe solicit some more ideas?
[11:55am] jrseti_: yes
[11:55am] Jill_: there's always the squiggle detector :)
[11:56am] gerryharp: that is where the compamp data would come in handy.
[11:57am] jrseti_: Dave Robinson and his ASTIGMATIC FILTERING
[11:57am] jrseti_: Leash: Any news from you?
[11:58am] jrseti_: She must have looked away from his computer!
[11:58am] jrseti_: "her"
[11:58am] leash: I still want to get on the google+ project and continue with MWWT.
[11:58am] jrseti_: OK, anything you can do there will be great.
[11:58am] leash: However, after seeing some of these chats, trying to get the community involved again would take a lot more than that.
[11:59am] gerryharp: we'd need a strong project everyone can get behind, for real this time
[11:59am] leash: Something big will have to happen to convince dawdling community members to come back.
[12:00pm] gerryharp: and new ones
[12:00pm] leash: Them too.
[12:00pm] gerryharp: thanks, bye
[12:00pm] gerryharp left the chat room. (Quit: Page closed)
[12:00pm] jrseti_: It is 12:00. Thanks all!
[12:00pm] leash: Bye!
[12:01pm] sigblips: Wow! What a lively meeting. I'll post the transcript to the forum.
[12:02pm] jrseti_: Thanks!

sigblips
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This past setiQuest IRC

This past setiQuest IRC community meeting was such a flurry of activity that I didn't get to comment on everything I wanted to comment on. Original chat is in italic and my new comments are in bold.

[11:20am] gerryharp: for example, I had the crazy thought of uploading all the signal databases SETI has and let people look at those data

What signal databases? Please elaborate. If these are signal databases from past SETI searches then I think uploading them is a great idea. Who knows what people might find.

[11:28am] gerryharp: well, lets turn the question around, what do people want? Independently of what SETI Institute wants?

I think I speak for the forum on this.  People want access to more high-quality radio telescope data.

[11:31am] jrseti_: Do we need GSoC for that? Probably not. Probably best to get a group of volunteers, that would be a good 'community' project that could be broken up into small, manageable segments

I agree.  I think the best way to proceed with GSoC is to first build an active development community around an open source project. Then use the GSoC internship as a reward for a promising participating student (or two) who has demonstrated their commitment to the setiQuest project. This sort of arrangement builds community, encourages long-term participation, greatly simplifies the GSoC student selection process, and is how Google intends the GSoC process to operate.

Last year we did it backwards, we put the cart the before the horse so to speak, and we alienated the community.

[11:38am] gerryharp: Back to setiquest, until now we have been data driven. We can't see a way forward to collecting more of the old-style data at this moment (could change). Are other data products (e.g. databases) of interst? They sure are to me...

Why can't you "see a way forward to collecting more of the old-style data?"  What is the impediment?  The 8.7 MHz quadrature sampled data is/was the most successful and popular part of setiQuest.

[11:43am] Jill_: but that's exactly what has made the setiQuest community unhappy. they come up with results/ideas/questions and we do not respond to them - at least not quickly

Yes it is frustrating not being able to follow up on a signal candidate but that's not the source of the unhappiness. I think people just want some feedback.  GSoC focused energy elsewhere for 5+ months which significantly reduced SETI Institute feedback in the forums.

[11:54am] sigblips: Actually I think the SETI Institute's academic nature is a good thing. Just spread it around a bit more than was done with GSoC. Like Gerry's IRC colloquium chat last year, that was fantastic.

Link. http://setiquest.org/blog/does-et-text-or-talk#comment-2021 I think setiQuest would greatly benefit from more wonderful educational content like this.

gerryharp
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more data or more feedback?

hi Sigblips
The main conclusion I came to yesterday is that the community does not want "just" more data. In the past we have been throwing data over the fence and said, "have at it." This was about the level of committment I could make. The real problem is that when the community actually did things with the data, they wanted feedback from us. That is a much bigger committmnet of our time and not something I can take on (speaking only for myself). I'm now convinced that simply taking more data of any kind, complex amplitudes or signal databases, and throwing it over the fence is not going to help but actually lead to more frustration.
If I had a great idea for a project where i could integrate the great volunteers on SETIQuest to promote a very specific scientific goal, then that would be a recipe for success. Also, if we had enough data to be competitive with SDSS, then users with sufficient science expertise could set up their own research programs and publish their own papers in refereed journals about the data with minimal intervention from me. Either of these would be good scenarios. The setiquest data is too small a database to attract sufficient interest that spins off independent projects.
Open Data is new for all of us, especially me. At the beginning of this project I did not foresee these difficulties. At this moment, I'm feeling less optimistic that new scientific discoveries will come from posting raw telescope data, unless we could increase the data quantity by sevearl orders of magnitude.
Instead, how about if we integrate the highly qualified and committed setiquest group into another project that already has strong leadership?
Gerry

a_feder
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Why not say it like it is?

Why not say it like it is? You want to close down the data program. And as a thanks for all the time Sigblips has put into setiQuest, you are now offering him the honor of being Galaxy Zoo's most valued unpaid monkey!

As for the whole GSoC thing in the chat: due to this project's dismal performance, it is unlikely to be accepted into GSoC another time. You need to weigh that against the time it takes to write an application etc

gerryharp
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not helpful

Ya know, Anders,
I see your post as an attempt to inflame the discussion and intentionally trying to disrupt progress. I'm especially aroused by your comment involving SigBlips. This is insulting not only to me, as it misrepresents my beliefs, but I suspect it would be irritating for Sigblips, whom you have labeled a "monkey." I take it that your goal is to destroy setiQuest, and are taking advantage of this difficult and painful time to achieve your goal.
To everyone else: Am I wrong?
Gerry

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Assume what you will

Gerry, you can assume as much as you want. This project has been based on a lot of assumptions by yourself, Jill and others. How have that worked out, in your own opinion?

As for being helpful - at the outset of this project, a lot of brilliant and helpful people signed up. People like Karsten Wade, Jeffrey Osier-Mixon, Jeff Uphoff and Simon Phipps. (You may not know that they did, because you didn't participate in many of those discussions - but I, and Sigblips and others did.) People who - unlike you, with all due respect - have done online collaborative projects with astounding success for many years. What do you think happened to these people who offered their help in the well-behaved way you seem to be asking for?

I can tell you what happened: they left - because they were being ignored by you and others at SI. Sadly, that is what happens when you refuse to listen to those who know better (which they really do). They told you that this project was on a disastrous path that would be a huge waste of time, but you disregarded it (apparently, on the grounds that you don't "like" doing things the right way - "mentoring", as you call it, is "what you do", regardless of the fact that it doesn't actually accomplish anything. How many people in this project, who weren't being paid by Google, have you succesfully "mentored"? If it's less than one, have you considered the possibility that you simply aren't the right man for the job - or, that you at least need to severely revise your assumptions?)

With respect to my representation of your "beliefs" (I'm surprised to see that word here - I thought you worked for SETI Institute, the bastion of scientific skepticism?) - I weren't trying to characterize your beliefs, I was characterizing the facts. Do you think a Chinese child laborer becomes any more well-fed by being considered highly qualified by his employer? When you ask someone to do your work while you take the pay, then that is exploitation, no matter what you like to "believe". When you ask someone to do your work, while you take the pay, and then throw out all the work as you are about to do with this project, that is just so unimaginably stupid and disrespectful that I don't even think there is a word for it in the English language.

Oh, and I'm not worried about Sigblips. I'm quite sure that he understands that the underlying issue is not him, but you and others at SI who calls the shots (or neglect to do so, in many cases). It's a curious strategy, to paint anyone who points out your flaws as someone who is out to destroy you. One is left wondering how deep-seated that mindset is at SI and for how many years (decades?) it has prevented obvious strategic mistakes from being corrected...

sigblips
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Hello Gerry, It would be

Hello Gerry,

It would be possible to increase the size of the setiQuest data archive on AWS by an order of magnitude if we cleaned up the wasted space.  It may even be possible to increase the size of the archive by several orders of magnitude more if we used the AWS public data set service. Amazon hosts some of the Sloan Digital Sky Survey so they may be warm to the idea but we'd have to apply.

Getting the data into the AWS cloud will be a challenge. Physically transporting a bunch of external USB disks is probably the easiest and cheapest.  Currently the Internet pipe out of Hat Creek is only 3 Mbps but if the Hat Creek dark fiber rumors are true then there is another option. With some funding the fiber could be lit and a 1 Gbps line could be attached to Amazon's Direct Connect service.

A radio telescope version of the Sloan Sky Survey would be an incredibly useful service.  With a bit luck we definitely could do this ...

Dave Robinson
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Sounds a great idea

Hi Sigblips

This sounds a great idea - if it is possible. From my own very limited point of view, the thing that makes SETI Quest valuable is access to essentially raw data from the ATA on which I can undertake research into processing algorithms. Preprocessed data as is being proposed for the compamp files might be smaller, but they prevent the study of any  phenomena that isn't in the vicinity of signals that Sonata deems to be interesting.

I understand Gerry's point that the SETI Institute have little or no interest on ideas, algorithms or concepts beyond their own research plans - but when push comes to shove it was the SETI Institute that approached us nearly 2 years ago when the Quest was launched to investigate alternative processing routes. Now to turn round and effectively say "we are not interested in anything that the Citizen Scientist has to offer, and wish they would go away and play on someone elses site" seems at great odds to the original call for help, and seems possibly short sighted and very arrogant. True it is they who are the professionals, and us, mere bum amateurs, however I would have thought that although the odds of one of us coming up with a really good scheme were a lot shorter than actually being able to detect ET. But then what the hell do I know!

Regards

Dave Robinson

khrm
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First of all I  being a

First of all I  being a former gsoc student, I apologize if I did bad.
Second I am not able to attend the meeting nowadays because time of California has shifted by 1 hour and I am busy with my final semester project ( in additions to my sessional tests and other subjects ). I will try to come today. 
I think issue here is also that whatever work I did has not been integrated.  
Also I did tried to work on explorer but I don't know flex. So obviously I can't work there. I can work on supporting the Sonata on other platforms. And things like that.

"I agree.  I think the best way to proceed with GSoC is to first build an active development community around an open source project. Then use the GSoC internship as a reward for a promising participating student (or two) who has demonstrated their commitment to the setiQuest project. This sort of arrangement builds community, encourages long-term participation, greatly simplifies the GSoC student selection process, and is how Google intends the GSoC process to operate." - sigblips
I agree with above. But i think setiquest should be extend the work already done by students. But first integrate the work done by me.   I  am willing to work on integrating. I do have ideas about further extending the work done by. Mentors do know my email. They can can contact me.

Again I am sorry for disappointing to you all. I will be more active from now on.

 
PS: Just to clear my intentions. I will not be participating as GSOC student of Setiquest this year. I might have to join the company at which I am placed from August/September.

PPS: I have come online today at setiquest to inform that my fedora's instruction is no longer working ( In fact they block the update from fedora repo's). I will change the metapackage today. 
 

jrseti
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You did great, Khrm. Thanks

You did great, Khrm. Thanks for all the hard work you did on the project.
We haven't had anybody yet need the other distributions yet, though. There is a company http://www.siliconwolves.net/ that is in the process of trying to get SonATA running on their system. Look at their computer pictured on their page. Fancy! Their computer interfaces easily to commercial off-the-shelf GPU and FPGA system. They are in the beginning stage of doing this and they are trying to profile the DX process to see where it is spending its time.
They originally were going to use Ubuntu, then they changed their minds and are using OpenSUSE. They are going to start using the Enterprise version soon, I assume they will not have any problem with that.
They are using OpenSUSE 11.4. There was one problem, the seeker program could not connect to the DX process. Khrm, didn't you have that problem with 11.4? I installed 11.4 and I had the same problem. We were able to get around the problem for now by not using Multicast IP addresses for the DX processes. For some reason multicast will not work on 11.4, there must be something missing, or some setting in the OS that prohibits it from working.

-jrseti

khrm
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Joined: 2011-03-20
Posts: 39
I think I solved that by

I think I solved that by disabling the firewall. I will reinstalled the OpenSuse this week and look into that.

sigblips
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Joined: 2010-04-20
Posts: 733
Hello KHRM,You didn't do

Hello KHRM,

You didn't do anything bad.  In fact you did a wonderful job last summer during GSoC and I'm impressed with what you accomplished and I am pleased to have co-mentored you.

The problem is that last year setiQuest attempted to use GSoC as a tool to infuse life into our fledgling open source efforts.  We didn't have the infrastructure to support this, we still don't, and we tried to use GSoC in a manner that it wasn't intended. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone but I learned that trying to use GSoC as a tool to build an open source community is a very bad idea. Open source just doesn't work like that. GSoC hit setiQuest like a steam roller and we were left with less of an open source community than we started with. This is not the fault of the GSoC students or the mentors. Both performed excellently. GSoC was simply the wrong tool for the job. I learned from this.  Did setiQuest?